Chiron in Pisces through the houses: Part 2

Continuing then with Chiron in Pisces through the houses:

7th House: With Chiron in Pisces here there are often difficulties within close relationships based upon an inability to set proper boundaries, a sense of being overwhelmed by relationship issues, or being taken for granted in your marriage or in other close partnerships. You may be deceived by your spouse or business partner, or alternatively you may be drawn to people whom you believe need rescuing. If you have Chiron in Pisces here then you may be attracted to artists, dreamers and lost-souls, or even those with drug, alcohol or other addiction problems, or those who suffer from depression. Because of the tendency to “outsource” any themes that are associated with the descendant, we may actually have disowned these tendencies in

Cobain experienced degenerative relationships

Cobain experienced degenerative relationships

ourselves and found instead another person to embody those difficult Piscean qualities that we cannot admit to. With Chiron in Pisces here, there may be issues with the legal system relating to drugs, alcohol or an inability to cope. This position of Chiron gives a real ability for counselling, especially for marriage guidance and relationship problems. An astrologer with Chiron in Pisces here could work well in synastry with an emphasis on those who have lost faith in their partnerships.

Kurt Cobain, with Chiron in Pisces in the 7th is a very good example of the placement. When he met his wife, Courtney Love she was already a regular user of heroin; Cobain gradually became a user himself and his gradual degeneration into addiction became a contributing factor in his eventual suicide. His relationship with Love was characterised with legal, law and drug problems, the birth of their child, Frances Bean, was attended by controversy since Love admitted to using heroin while pregnant and she and Cobain had to battle for custody of their daughter after she was removed from their care by welfare services.

8th House: Here, Chiron manifests as a struggle to survive through being unable to take control of our own destiny. Very often our fate seems to be in other people’s hands, not because we have necessarily failed to have an adequate vision for ourselves, but because issues of power in our lives have a habit of becoming tenuous, deceptive or illusory. Anyone with Chiron in Pisces here may feel as if events are overtaking them, that their destiny is running away with no thought for personal desires; often there are life and death struggles based upon an inability to take control of events. The confluence of Pisces and Scorpio in this house can similarly result in drug problems (as in the case of Robert Downey Jr. who admitted to having substance abuse problems from the age of 8!) or other issues of losing control (Pisces on Scorpio). This loss of control though can be through the influence of others – possibly parents or other authority figures – through financial difficulty – debt, obligation or living in hope of an eventual legacy. I have seen people with this placement who seem to have lost their free-will because they are in line for an inheritance one day – providing they live a dutiful life according to Aunt Flo’s vision (and rarely do the fates reward such limited ambition).

Indira Gandhi, India’s first female prime minister is an informative – if extreme – case. Her entire life, as the daughter of India’s most powerful political dynasty seemed to be mapped out; she associated with the power-players of Indian society: her own father was Prime Minister and she was closely associated with Mahatma Gandhi as well; with hindsight, she seemed destined to live her life at the behest of the power-brokers of India’s ruling elite from the day she was born until her eventual assassination when she was machine gunned by her own bodyguards at her home aged 66.

9th House: Chiron in PIsces in the 9th creates confusion, difficulty and a sense of yearning around philosophic, religious and humanitarian issues and aims, it no doubt also has the side-effect of making the conditions of life singularly chaotic and disorganised as well, due to the influence of Pisces on Sagittarius. In my view, however, this is one of the more comfortable placements for Chiron since a philanthropically motivated attitude will find some sympathy here, and may even prosper. This said, higher education may be beset by problems; uncertainty in determining the best subject for study may simply be the start of a whole raft of confusing distractions surrounding education. The native may well be their own worst enemy, wishing to study art one day and astronomy the next and feeling vaguely dissatisfied whatever their choice. In a similar vein, spiritual, religious or philosophic ideas may suffer the same confusing uncertainty; a Marxist

too visionary?

Adams: too visionary?

today and a Calvinist the next, there is an inability to settle, to stay fixed. A tendency to having far-reaching ideas is always present in Sagittarius or the 9th, but with Chiron in Pisces there is a distinct possibility that these ideas are misunderstood by others and misinterpreted often harshly or hurtfully; great effort needs to be made to ensure that ideas, creeds and philosophies are grounded, are rendered practical, because it is quite common for this placement to reach too high and lose credibility as a result.

The 6th President of the USA, John Adams, had Chiron in Pisces here and he displays many of the key themes of the placement. His childhood was disrupted out of a need to travel with his father, who was an American envoy to France and then the Netherlands. He therefore was required to spend long periods far from home and family. Upon winning the presidency in 1825 he immediately proposed a raft of ambitious reforms and proposals that failed to convince even his own supporters; his vision for office was dogged by doubts about his sense of proportion and reality. Many of his ideas were wonderfully philanthropic, but they jarred against the established opinions and social mores of his contemporaries. Another blow to Adams’ presidency was his generous policy toward Native Americans. Settlers on the frontier, who were constantly seeking to move westward, cried for a more expansionist policy. When the federal government tried to assert authority on behalf of the Cherokees, the governor of Georgia took up arms and the President’s credibility was further undermined. In hindsight, Adams’ policies were typically Chiron in Pisces in the 9th, far ahead of their time, but in the context of what was possible in that day and age, unrealistic and somewhat naive.

10th House: Here, Chiron in Pisces undermines all issues of status and standing in the world. One of the quirks of this placement that I have found is that very often natives suffer in their career ambitions as a direct result of the incompetence of others. It also creates a natural proficiency in health and medicinal careers and Chiron configured with the Midheaven – particularly by a tee square from Uranus opposing Chiron across the horizon – is present in several charts of astrologers, acupuncturists and other alternative health practitioners. Chiron alone in the 10th I find to be present in chiropractors (unsurprisingly), osteopaths and those who work more directly with physical structures in the body. For those with Chiron so placed that choose not to follow a healing profession, teaching is a good alternative. For everyone else, Chiron in Pisces here will create some element of confusion, and reputations may suffer as a result, usually through no fault of your own. Similarly, any attempt to garner status may be misconstrued or misinterpreted by others in the worst possible light. In the worst case, I have seen one person who worked hard for a charity organisation for several years only to discover that it was a façade that was dedicated to money-laundering, rather than its stated purpose of supplying foreign aid to Africa. These types of deceptions are entirely in keeping with this particular placement.

Orson Welles had Chiron in Pisces here and it is interesting to note the summary of his career (from Wikipedia): “In 1941, he co-wrote, directed, produced and starred in Citizen Kane, often chosen in polls of film critics as the greatest film ever made. The rest of his career was often obstructed by lack of funds, incompetent studio interference and other unfortunate occurrences, both during exile in Europe and brief returns to Hollywood.” This describes almost perfectly the ambience of Chiron in Pisces in the 10th.

11th House: Here, group dynamics cause considerable distress or at least confusion, and the need to be part of something can be undermining. If you have Chiron in Pisces here, it is possible that you may feel overwhelmed within a group, or that your identity is somehow lost or submerged as part of a greater dynamic; group activities that focus on negative Piscean themes need careful handling as well; thus parties where there are drugs or excessive alcohol ought to be treated with caution, as should mediumistic or questionable religious organisations. Cults and weird group obsessions are very prevalent under this influence. Similarly, reputations may be unfairly damaged within a group. Friends are especially difficult with this influence, maybe they are deceptive, or self-deceptive in a way that is damaging to you, or your needs from a friendly relationship are somehow not met, or you acnnot seem to express your feelings and instead you get treated like a doormat by your friends.

Laurent Blanc, the great French centre-half is an interesting example. He was denied the greatest moment of his career by the fraudulent activity of a member of the opposing team, he missed the World Cup final in 1998 after being sent off in the semi-final against Croatia for elbowing Slaven Bilić, although replays showed that Bilić had clearly feigned the injury. Here, the undermining deception (Pisces) in a team situation (11th house) caused the difficulty (Chiron). This was arguably the crowning glory of an illustrious career for Blanc, and it must cause him considerable anguish to this day to have been so blatantly cheated out of the pinnacle moment of his entire life’s work.

12th House: Here, especially within its own sign of Pisces, the 12th house creates a great opportunity, for transcendence or abject self-deception. Here, institutions are configured, as are themes of retreat, solitude and service. This creates something of an imperative, because Chiron revels in selfless ideals, and the doubly Piscean connotation will be difficult to deny here. If you have Chiron in Pisces here then you will need to monitor your motives very closely; the potential for self-undoing is great. Those motivated by power, self-aggrandisement and personal ambition are very clearly likely to come unstuck and examples are many and telling. On the other hand, this is an extremely good placement for artists, poets, healers and carers. A life of devotion, humility and giving service without expectation of reward is the only sure-fire route to

Man of the year, eventually undone by Chrion in Pisces

Brandt: Man of the year, eventually undone by Chiron in Pisces

realising the benefits of Chiron here, and as with any placement in the 12th there is something of a karmic slant to matters here. This is where and how we must serve in this life, so Chiron here is a good placement for hospital workers, asylum staff, those devoted to religious service, for artists and so forth, but especially those motivated by an ideal rather than by financial gain or the lure of fame.

Willy Brandt, Chancellor of West Germany, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize and fierce opponent of both the Nazi and the later Soviet regimes evinced this placement. He was celebrated throughout the 1960s and 70s for his humanitarian and democratic views and his humanistic socialist leadership. All his hard work came to nothing though, since at the height of his power, scandalous allegations relating to his private life and the uncovering of a Stasi spy, who turned out to be Brandt’s personal assistant effectively ended his political ambitions. Billy Graham has this placement also, as does Barbara Hutton, heir to the Woolworth’s fortune and the archetypal “poor little rich girl” is yet another example of just how delicate Chiron’s placement here can be.

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27 comments on “Chiron in Pisces through the houses: Part 2

  1. [...] Tedster wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptThe confluence of Pisces and Scorpio in this house can similarly result in drug problems (as in the case of Robert Downey Jr. who admitted to having substance abuse problems from the age of 8!) or other issues of losing control (Pisces … [...]

  2. [...] Chiron in Pisces through the houses: Part 2 When he met his wife, Courtney Love she was already a regular user of heroin; Cobain gradually became a user himself and his gradual degeneration into addiction became a contributing factor in his eventual suicide. … [...]

  3. Nicola says:

    Dear chirotic, thank you very much for this beautiful post. I have a livelong problem with partners who drink, took drugs, have problems relating to (what I would call) reality.
    My chiron sits exactly on the descendant in pisces – with a mars-pluto-opposition on the ascendant in virgo.
    Still struggeling with the transiting saturn
    Nicola in Berlin

  4. [...] When he met his wife, Courtney Love she was already a regular user of heroin; Cobain gradually became a user himself and his gradual degeneration into addiction became a contributing factor in his eventual suicide. … Source: Chiron in Pisces through the houses: Part 2 [...]

  5. chirotic says:

    Thank you Nicola, the placement is never easy wherever it is found, but Chiron has a gift too, something you are probably discovering. You have a calling to be a counsellor with that placement if you choose to follow Chiron’s path!

  6. Loonsounds says:

    I have chiron in the 11th house and I relate to your description even though my Chiron is in Aquarius, I can still related to many things you said as being sensitive points for this placement.

    I have definitely been extensively involved in at least one so called ‘weird’ group association (of a spiritual nature) which had/has a dubious reputation (or worse) amongst my peers here in the US. My involvement continued for more than a year.

    I have bad memories of the word ‘team’ as I am not athletic, so I was always one of those kids left standing around looking ridiculous, being selected by default as the last person standing. I understood it, as I really was a bad athlete, nonetheless it was embarrassing at the time.

    And friendships, that is not a strong area either. I don’t seem to be willing to do the things that are necessary to sustain a friendship over time. I am rather a loner, I don’t know if that has anything to do with the placement of Chiron.

  7. chirotic says:

    Well, Chiron in Aquarius in the 11th relates mostly (in my experience) to a feeling of being given the cold-shoulder by the collective, by not feeling cool enough to fit in with the crowd, by being made to feel over-emotional and as if you are losing your cool, especially within peer groups, where you might get a reputation for either being the hot-head or too cool for comfort (in a few cases), either way there is an inabilitiy to feel like you fit. The Aquarius angle on the 11th certainly speaks to organisations, although not of a traditional religious nature, but more of a new-age and weird variety. Scientology for example, fits the description of Ch/Aq/11th just right.

    There are definite themes of alienation in this placement, most especially because of the double-Aquarius connotation, Joseph McCarthy shared the same Chiron positioning, and he managed to alienate an entire sector of society! That’s worst case of course. The gift is that through suffering alienation from the group you are sensitive to others being excluded, you are able to make others feel as though they belong as a result.

  8. [...] Cobain gradually became a user himself and his gradual degeneration into addiction b… Source: Chiron in Pisces through the houses: Part 2 Who Would Be A Worse Mom? Paris or Lindsey? Vote Now And Get A Free iPhone. Courtney Love Used [...]

  9. Jan says:

    This is the post I needed to find today! I have Chiron in the 11th in Pisces (close conjunct Jupiter) and it is manifesting exactly as a fear of being lost in groups – Saturn is transiting opposite at present, conjuncting my 5th house Pluto so all these fears are being crystallised. I couldn’t put it into words, but what you say about being “overwhelmed”, that you somehow feel you lose your identity, is exactly what it feels like. It feels I’m permeable, as if everyone’s fears and anxieties transmit themselves and I just become invisible. It’s happened twice in the last week. The Saturn transit is definitely bringing it to the fore. There’s also the feeling of finally being able to “stand up” to friends who have used me in the past.

    I have joined two very Piscean group (reiki sharing, and shamanic drumming) and although I feel very “at home” with those people, sometimes I love to go, other times like this week feel I can’t face it.

    Thank you for expressing so well what this feels like.

  10. chirotic says:

    I am so pleased that you found it helpful Jan, and with the conjunction to Jupiter it is something that expands but also gives you the ability to teach humanity something about Chiron.

    Good luck with everything.

  11. Jan says:

    Thank you for that, and the for the comment about teaching, after years in an administrative career I’ve changed direction and am following a teaching path, through astrology, and I’ve also done formal teacher training. I’m conscious of an ability to see healing and teaching potential in others, particularly in friends, it seems to jump out of their charts at me and it’s always to do with the Chiron placement. I’d thought of Jupiter in the sense of expanding the Chiron energy but hadn’t consciously connected it with teaching.

  12. artpredator says:

    I’ve been looking into the impact on my chart of the last solar & lunar eclipses in Feb and the current ones today and in 2 weeks.

    Huge changes going on in my life; the ones in February were horrendously challenging dealing with a legal dispute gone awry. The ones now are positive–new exciting job–but still unresolved issues from Feb.

    I found your blog as I have chiron in pisces 11th house as during the last lunar eclipse the sun was in pisces. With today’s solar eclipse in leo, I’ve also been exploring how my leo is in the north node… (I’ve made most of the movements from Aquarious So to Leo…which is ideal for the new job!)

    I’d appreciate your thoughts on this series of eclipses and chiron…maybe i just need to look deeper into your blog

  13. artpredator says:

    hmmn another thought provoked by your wonderful helpful post–i don’t get lost in groups unless i choose to be; rarely if ever overwhelmed by them. i am typically a Leo-esque charismatic playful leader.

  14. Jamie says:

    BRAVO!!!!!!!!! (*******clapping uber appreciatively here*******!!)

    My God how poetic! How erudite! How profoundly you have defined this energy!
    This is knowledge worth reading….and assimilating into our very essence.

    I’ve read so many interpretations of Chiron but this one…this one is worth it’s weight in cosmic star dust! ( Gold is soooo over rated.)
    Thank you, thank you for learning this language and translating it to those of us STARVING for profundity!

    You have my deepest gratitude.

  15. Herman Salazar Jr (DogontheComet) says:

    I’ve looked into astrology but I really don’t understand it. I saw my chart but am unsure which house Chiron is in on my chart because its right on a line. Can you tell me which house its in if I give you my birth information? I’d really appreciate it because I’m working in a place where I’m not to happy.
    Herman Salazar Jr
    Born 7:33 AM
    March 7, 1970
    Houston, Texas USA

  16. pamina says:

    My Chiron is in Pisces in the 2nd house. I grew up comfortably to affluent, but have had a guilt about this, and have sought to be indifferent to material things. I get bothered by materialistic people and in romantic relationships feel a bit defensive about being liked for my background or becming materially dependent on another. I do not like discussing the materialistic aspect of a relationship with a partner; there is this dualism I have had in my experience in relationships — where money is not an object and I needn’t worry about contributing, or it becomes an issue. I became a classicaly trained vocalist and that has healed some issues in terms of ‘having a voice’ in what goes on in my surroundings. I am very well educated; I have gone to some of the best schools — and yet I get skeptical about the value of it. I guess that is the duality of Pisces? Seeing two realities, or seeing through the illusions or glamor of the world? I am not great with money but I am not bad either. I have no addictions or vices or spending problems. But I have been in ‘needy’ and financially irresponsible situations, almost on purpose, I was always aware of it, just to see what it’s like — what it’s like to ‘hit rock bottom’. The only real ‘bottom’ I have experienced and that has been genuine has been depression. And that had nothing to do with money or possessions. It maybe had to do with ‘having a voice’ on certain matters. But ‘money talks’, as they say. So now I see the connection.

  17. Ken says:

    Hi,

    This second part of your Chiron in Pisces article is amongst the most authentic-sounding pieces I have read about Chiron in general – and I have enjoyed reading it. One thing perplexes me though: where is part one?! I feel kind of left out, because I have Chiron in Pisces at 29 degrees, rising about 12 degrees from the Ascendant in the first house. Cheers, Ken

  18. lbotti says:

    I think your blog is incredibly enlightning, rich and human. Yet, if you allow me, sometimes, you may sound a bit… final.
    Your analysis of Chiron in Pisces in X can be quite depressing for anyone with that configuration… So here are a few examples showing that not everyone is doomed by such a placement, and if it implies dificulties, it doesn’t condemn its “owner” to a carreer of failure and deception : Cindy Crawford, Juliette Binoche, Sandra Bullock (yes I see how Chiron plays here!), Ben Stiller, Elle Mc Pherson, Ginger Rodgers… Just to name a few.
    I have Chiron in X in Pisces and felt so bad after reading your post that I had to make some reseachs ;)
    Nevertheless, your blog is terrific!

    (Ps : I’m French, hence my English!)

    • chirotic says:

      Thank you my French friend, and please do not be concerned. Astrology does not dictate, it only inclines and what I have written about here is the inclination. Maybe it is expressed positively, but if it were not then it would become vague and unclear: you are not ‘doomed’ to experience these difficulties, but the sensitivity of Chiron, unchecked, unfaced, unhealed would push you toward this outcome. Of course, very few people have to live out the worst excesses of a given astrological placement because they have strengths to ameliorate the difficulty, and very often remember, people are especially motivated to succeed where their experience of life is most uncomfortable, because they want to conquer the pain of this aspect of existence.
      There are few motivating forces as urgent and profound as Chiron. I should also say that everything I write is seasoned with an expectation that your (the reader’s) view is of a more humanistic turn. I do not believe in the bad destinies of Victorian astrology, and it is an assumption that you will not either.
      It is also worth mentioning that it takes a rather more evolved soul to respond to Chiron in any case: experiencing the difficulties associated with his placement is often a signature of sensitivity and evolvement. In a sense, being negatively affected by the placement is a question of perspective: is it terrible? If it is then you are operating from a particular perspective, but other perspectives are possible, albeit one’s which do not sit comfortably with the Saturnian tenets of the 10th house. In a very real way, your (inferred – by me) horror of the worst excesses of this placement speak directly to your sensitivity to 10th house matters; your voice is tinged with Chiron in this matter. Maybe you see that?

      • lbotti says:

        Dear Chirotic,
        Thanks a lot for this reply. Very true indeed… and your last point is very intuitive. Having a tight conjunction of Sat/Chiron/Lilith in X in Pisces, directly opposed to Pl/Ur/Mars in Virgo in IV, you can imagine that YES, the X is quite a sensitive subject in my case… And sorry if my comment sounded critic (or my view very narrow for that matter) : i just had read your post a day that I needed a bit of light and have over(and mis)interprated it.
        I know your approach is the right one… and try my best to feel the experience as you do! Well, when my IV and my X leave me in peace, that is ;)
        Once again, kudos for your work : this blog is human and incredibly rich, definitely one of the best i’ve seen so far!

  19. I stumbled across this far later than it appeared, from a link from another of your posts. This is the best and most useful explanation of Chiron in Pisces I’ve ever seen. I have been trying to find good examples of this for ages. Thank you so much. I’ll be referring to this frequently.

    I have Chiron in Pisces in the 8th, conjunct Saturn and opposing Mars/Uranus/Pluto all as one arm of a grand cross. I “inherited” a shamanic tradition that had been abandoned by my ancestors, and by “inherited” I mean the classic situation where the ancestral spirits grab you up, put you through a near-death experience, and inform you that you will be working for them for the rest of your life, whether you want to or not. It’s a situation described in many anthropological texts about circumpolar shamans, but I never thought it would happen to me … until it did.

    Your points about Chiron in the 8th being a struggle for survival in the face of greater forces that one cannot control is exactly right. At first I did struggle, and almost died again, because that call cannot be refused. Eventually I got the point – no, the destiny is inescapable, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t use it to do amazing things in the world, and you were chosen because someone had to be forced to do it, or no one would. Sometimes the needs of the many come before the needs of the one. How Piscean, eh?

    Thanks again.

  20. Me too, I found this years after you wrote it. I have Chiron in the very last degree of Pisces, my most advanced placement by degree and I’d really appreciate your analysis of that, in the 9th house. It’s funny, but when I watched the extraordinarily brilliant HBO miniseries on John Adams, I found that I really related to him…I understood him…and couldn’t fathom his seeming so erasable to others. I wonder if you’d agree that in some sense, Chiron in the 9th, possibly in Pisces in the 9th, is almost the “Joan of Arc” angle. I often feel as though I am going down in flames for a cause about which I am personally comfortable with its inherent truth, but that raises the ire of others because they are not ready for it. I’m often ahead of my time, but I often find that others get there eventually, and when they do, it is never the case that I’m found and apologized to, or given belated credit, I’m just martyred for it. The thing is, I believe that right is right and fair is fair (hmm…which Stephen King book was that used in? I think it was “Secret Window.”), and I am definitely not able to respond to what I know to be right by backing off it because it’s “naive” for the times. To do so would be to ignore the voice of God, in whatever form God takes. Not an easy path, though, to be sure. ;-) Thanks.

    • sarahbellem says:

      Blue8ass,
      I feel like you do, but my Chiron is not in the 9th, it is in the last degree of the 12th…but like you, in the last degree of Pisces.

  21. Francisca Martinez says:

    Hi there :) I’ve been reading your articles on the 8th house and I was wondering if you have written anything on chiron in taurus in the 8th? Chiron is the only planet I have in the 8th and taurus is the ruler :)

    • chirotic says:

      Not yet Francisca, but when I get some time I will finish the Chiron in Taurus articles. I have been asked probably 40 times now, so there’s plenty of interest!

  22. LMA says:

    I’ve always felt as if my family of origin were sitting on me, trying to control me. I attributed this in the past to Cancer ruling the 12th, but after reading Pisces Chiron in the 8th I think that may be the mitigating factor. Knowledge is power, though, and I don’t have to accept this as my fate.

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