The 8th House: A Good Death?

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If you’re a halfway competent astrologer and you have no interest in knowing how you’re likely to meet your maker, then stop reading now.

Today I am going to explore some of the key insights relating to death in the nativity; it is a profoundly difficult subject for very obvious reasons and not one that I would ever make mention of in consultation, however, it provides a fascinating area of study and it is possible to demonstrate that the manner of death is very accurately predictable.

What I will not attempt is to formulate a method for predicting the time of death, that is a level of detail in which I am not remotely interested, and I cannot imagine any reason or logic that would make such a discipline even remotely attractive. This article will only seek to determine the manner in which the end is met, not the timing of it.

I have long known – broadly – how my life will conclude and it holds remarkably little fear for me; I am reconciled to it and – perhaps due in part to that long familiarity – I find it vaguely comforting to have some sense of what I might expect at the end. I am also absolutely confident of my conclusions in this regard, I have looked at too many nativities of the deceased to harbour any illusions about the probabilities of such profundities. In addition, for the astrologer, the methodology of predicting the manner of death is really quite straightforward. As ever though, due to the Cascade Effect, hindsight lends all manner of granularity to the picture, texture that can only be guessed at beforehand. Of course this is one of the key criticisms of the whole of astrology, but, as with all immeasurabilities, a sense of form is not rendered pointless because the finished piece is still in the conceiver’s mind’s eye.

So then, to practicalities.

The key elements are as ever: placements in the 8th, the ruler of the 8th house cusp and its conditions, Pluto and broadly, in the sense of determining the conditions ruling the end of the life, the 4th, placements in it and the ruler of the 4th house cusp.

The 8th house, which I have written about before is not so simplistically (as it is often maligned) the house of death. It provides considerable insight into the conditions of the physical death, but the difficulty with comprehending the intrinsic nature of the 8th is based upon its primativity. Simply put, the 8th rules the birth-death-rebirth principle and in this sense it tells us much about how we start over, how we remove the old to make way for the new: mundanely it says something about how we end relationships (see the astrology of marital breakdown for more), how we quit our jobs and to some extent too, our attitude toward possessions and money, taxes, credit, our partner’s resources and of course, sex.

But that’s another story for another day.

In general terms, a tenant within a house overrides the ruler of that house’s cusp, most especially though, the proximity of a tenant to the house cusp is proportional to the weight of it in the analysis. A tenant applying to the 9th cusp therefore is often of less import even to 8th house affairs than a placement in the latter degrees of the 7th. Also, the Cascade Effect suggests that clues about one’s demise can be gleaned from other affairs of the 8th. Thus, for example, if you experience sudden relationship breakdowns, then you can be fairly sure that your exit from this life can be similarly fast. Let us consider the zodiac in this respect: if your 8th house cusp is in the sign of or the sign ruler is similarly configured, or that planet is within the 8th or especially applying to its cusp:

Aries (Mars): sudden, possibly violent, head or brain configured.
Taurus (Venus): slow, generally peaceful, maybe due to overindulgence, throat.
Gemini (Mercury): Possible multiple causes, mental deterioration possible, lungs and breathing.
Cancer (Moon): At home, overeating may be a factor, stomach.
Leo (Sun): probable cardiac problems, some drama.
Virgo (Hygeia): Often a quiet demise in modest circumstances, not dramatic, digestive system.
Libra (Venus): Not difficult, maybe related to kidney function.
Scorpio (Pluto): Possibly confined or violent, alcohol.
Sagittarius (Jupiter): Abroad or away from home, possibly overindulgence.
Capricorn (Saturn): Slow degenerative demise probably in old age.
Aquarius (Uranus): Sudden, possibly unusual demise, rare diseases, blood problems.
Pisces (Neptune): Confused; cause of death obscure or uncertain, alcohol, poison, drugs, mistake, suicide.

In general terms the elements define themselves, with earth tending to physical disease, water to depression and so forth. Of course, these are no hard and fast rules. Consider Karl Marx who, with the 8th house cusp in Libra actually died of pleurisy, a classically Geminian death. However, a quick glance at his astrology confirms that Mercury was peregrine in Gemini: and when you consider the Cascade Effect again, it becomes a factor which runs away with the entire chart, a brilliant mind, a classically Mercurial demise. Peregrination, which very often rules the life, similarly can have a pronounced influence upon the death too.

Let us consider some concrete examples.

00) Pissburgh, PA, USA

Andy Warhol, artist: 6 Aug 1928 )6:30 (EST +5:00) Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Andy Warhol lived with an acute gallbladder problem his entire adult life. Warhol died in New York City at 6:32 a.m. on February 22, 1987. According to news reports, he had been making good recovery from a routine gallbladder surgery at New York Hospital before dying in his sleep from a sudden post-operative cardiac arrhythmia. Prior to his diagnosis and operation, Warhol delayed having his recurring gallbladder problems checked, as he was afraid to enter hospitals and see doctors. The sun square to Jupiter is especially pertinent to the gallbladder difficulty, wherever this aspect is found, there is a sensitivity to indulgent habits that usually finds its way out into the liver or its associated functions.

Now consider this news report taken from the New York Times, December 5th 1991:

Care Faulted In the Death Of Warhol

Andy Warhol — anemic, undernourished and fearful of hospitals — slipped into a coma after surgery and died virtually unattended because his doctors overloaded him with fluids, a lawyer for his estate said yesterday in opening arguments in a wrongful death suit.

The lawyer, Bruce Clark, said that New York Hospital negligently pumped more than twice the required volume of fluids into Mr. Warhol when he underwent gallbladder surgery five years ago and that the resulting internal pressure caused his death from heart failure.

Pointing out the vein of his right arm to the State Supreme Court jury in Manhattan, Mr. Clark said: “They pumped him full through here and they never kept track of what came out later. The fluids drowned him.” ‘Where Were They?’

Mr. Clark, the lawyer for the heirs to the estate, including Mr. Warhol’s two brothers and the Warhol foundation, recounted what he called mistakes and omissions by the doctors and hospital staff both before and after the 58-year-old artist’s surgery.

Now look to the astrology. We ought to consider the tenants of the 8th first, although Moon is, in my view somewhat discounted since she applies to the 9th with alacrity. Uranus then, and in Aries suggests sudden endings, and rather unexpected too; Warhol’s gallbladder problem was not considered to be remotely life threatening.

More intriguingly, the ruler of the 8th is Neptune. Consider some of the language in the above news report: “overloaded [...] with fluids”, “wrongful death”, “the fluids drowned him”, “where were they” and “mistakes and omissions”. A litany of Neptunian language indeed. Thus, liquids, mistakes, confusion and abandonment are all themes which are intrinsically associated with Warhol’s death. The actual cause of death: “a sudden post-operative cardiac arrhythmia” is entirely in keeping with Uranus – Saturn (by Ebertin, inhibitions of rhythm, heart-block) and with Neptune on the degree of Leo for the atrioventricular septum, the muscle wall which separates the ventricles of the heart one from the other, then this hardly constitutes a surprise.

Therefore, both Uranus (tenanting the 8th) and Neptune (the 8th house ruler) describe key qualities of  his death.

The same conditions and insights occur in other cases. John F. Kennedy, the American president had Mars in the first degrees of the 8th, thus a violent end, and of course, Mars rules firearms too. Lee Harvey Oswald had Mars in the 8th house and in Aquarius, thus sudden, unexpected and violent and also involving firearms. Marilyn Monroe had Mars and Uranus in the 8th, thus sudden, unexpected and violent also, but as with Warhol, the 8th house cusp in Neptune creates another possibility, and of course the mystery and confusion surrounding the circumstances of her death remain to this day, this from Wikipedia:

On August 5, 1962, LAPD police sergeant Jack Clemmons received a call at 4:25AM from Dr. Hyman Engelberg proclaiming that Monroe was dead at her home in Brentwood, Los Angeles, California. Sergeant Clemmons was the first police officer to arrive at the death scene.Many questions remain unanswered about the circumstances of her death and the timeline after Monroe’s body was found.

The official cause of Monroe’s death was classified by Dr. Thomas Noguchi of the Los Angeles County Coroners office as “acute barbiturate poisoning”, which he recorded as a “probable suicide”. Eight milligram percent of chloral hydrate and 4.5 milligram percent of Nembutal were found in her system after the autopsy.Her death was classified as “probable suicide”, but because of a lack of evidence, investigators could not classify her death as suicide or homicide.

Once again, with Pisces configured the terminology is resonant with Neptunian themes: “many questions remain unanswered”, “acute barbiturate poisoning”, “probable suicide” and “lack of evidence”.

There are always subplots. Andy Warhol’s Pluto was in Cancer on the degree for the duodenal opening of pancreatic duct, and very close therefore in proximity and function to the gallbladder itself. The closest aspect in his entire astrology at only 4 minutes of arc was Mars square Neptune, an aspect which in itself promotes wastage; Warhol was painfully underweight (a common side-effect of gall diseases in general due to an inability to process fat) at 5 feet 11 inches in height, he weighed only 138 pounds (a touch under 10 stone).

When Warhol’s body was weighed at autopsy he weighed 150 pounds, the hospital had arguably pumped 12 pounds of fluids into his body by mistake. That equates to approximately one and a half gallons of fluid by weight.

Andy Warhol was inadvertently drowned.

34 comments to The 8th House: A Good Death?

  1. christine says:

    Thanks for another great post, Jeremy. Could you offer a/ your definition of peregrination? I’ve seen it described in various ways…?

  2. flip says:

    Very interesting. You do not discuss chiron. Chiron is the only planet in my 8th house. The cusp of my 8th house is aquarius.

  3. buddymaterna says:

    I don´t know why I found that funny. Nice article. How about an 8th house Moon? Will I die in my sleep, peacefully?

  4. OK, I use Placidus which would put Pisces on my 8th, but what if I used whole sign houses? Then it would be Aries. Does the manner of an astrologer’s death depend on the house system they use? ;)

  5. flip says:

    Actually, my chiron is in Aquarius. I’m 50 yrs. old.

  6. chris says:

    thanks so much for the link to the peregrination posts– very helpful -C

  7. Bitzky says:

    This is one piece of information I’m not sure if I would like to have. Even if given incomplete information, my brain would project so many scenarios that I would never find peace regarding this. I am glad that you managed to do it, though :)

    Btw, I am not commenting much (because most of your posts are over my head) but I am still reading :)

  8. Esras says:

    i am so scared and worried at this moment.My brother has Mars and Moon on his 8th house.The ruler of 8th house is Aquarius and mars make square with uranus and moon. It seems that he will have a violent death as well…………….. could you please give more examples
    Thank you

  9. Michelle says:

    Neat article. I have Aries on the 8th cusp. My Mars-Pluto square is the tightest in my chart. The Sun, Mercury and Chiron are in my 8th (and Jupiter, but it’s on the 8-9 cusp). Venus is on my 7-8 cusp. I have Neptune in Sag in my 4th.I guess it could go either way either very violent or very peaceful. Maybe it’ll be violent, but it won’t hurt? lol. wishful thinking :D

  10. [...] What factors then relate to her death? Astrology alone posits a great many intriguing factors. We have begun with the understanding that peregrine Pluto creates a distinct possibility of a rather tragic end, but this alone is not enough. Sun in the 8th and so profoundly stressed from Mars and Neptune becomes extremely intriguing because this blends accidents, falls and cuts with confusion, mistakes and misdiagnosis into a single potential. This exact principle led directly and unerringly to the death of Andy Warhol through a mistake (Neptune) in the quantity of fluid (also Neptune) that he was administered after surgery. Warhol’s nativity also evinced a fixed Mars-Neptune sqaure (from Taurus to Leo) and I discussed this intriguing case also in a previous article: The 8th House: A Good Death? [...]

  11. [...] What factors then relate to her death? Astrology alone posits a great many intriguing factors. We have begun with the understanding that peregrine Pluto creates a distinct possibility of a rather tragic end, but this alone is not enough. Sun in the 8th and so profoundly stressed from Mars and Neptune becomes extremely intriguing because this blends accidents, falls and cuts with confusion, mistakes and misdiagnosis into a single potential. This exact principle led directly and unerringly to the death of Andy Warhol through a mistake (Neptune) in the quantity of fluid (also Neptune) that he was administered after surgery. Warhol’s nativity also evinced a fixed Mars-Neptune square (from Taurus to Leo) and I discussed this intriguing case also in a previous article: The 8th House: A Good Death? [...]

  12. Raymond Andrews says:

    I have retrograde Eris in Aries in 8th.
    what does that mean in regards to death. the object is larger,more distant and outer than Pluto, and so it should have a profound influence.

    I have Sun conjunct the South Eris Node in Scorpio with 10 minutes of arc too.

    there is a strong Eris/8th/Scorpio theme

  13. shething says:

    You are very bold. Many astrologers do not say such things about the 8th house because they don’t want to frighten people. I think I like you.

    Could the 8th house also explain what people are afraid of in terms of death? What I found interesting about this is my 8th house describes perfectly my childhood fears. When I was little I had an acute fear that I was going to die suddenly, of poisoning especially, at my own hand or by some supernatural force. These fears arose when Neptune went over my Moon in Capricorn, which by equal house system, is in the 8th house.

    In Placidus, I have Neptune in the 8th house 3 degrees from the cusp in Capricorn. When I was a child, I also feared that the devil (Saturn- which is in 6th house Sagittarius) was the one responsible for those feelings about my death and religious morality drove my fears to the extreme.

    Mars is also in the 8th house at 14 degrees Capricorn, Pluto is in the 6th house, with Venus in the 4th house Virgo trine Neptune and Square Saturn/Descendant conjunction. I’ve wondered if that means I’m going to be murdered and they’ll never catch the guy! Heh, I hope not. It might also mean I die peacefully in my sleep in old age but no one saw it coming.

    Very interesting article anyway. What do you think about which house systems to use in determining where the planets are for this?

  14. paulo says:

    Loved the insights, i have been reading this blog every once in a while, and now ill read it more often.

    My brother had Libra Uranus in his 8th house, and Virgo as the 8th cuspid. He was an Junior pro Apnea Diver Champion, used to hunt alot… anyway got missing in his last dive, got apart from his group, probably tailing some fish… a couple of weeks later found dead in a beach… (uranus/sudden; Mercury/lungs)

    Now… shame on u… :p
    where is Chiron on taurus over the 8th description ? joking, cause i have that.
    Anyway, great blob, great articles… keep up the good work.

  15. Debbie says:

    very good work, you are a fine astrologer!
    5 Stars

  16. i have not read this thread for a while. Death is a good subject to discuss. I have scorpio moon in eighth house square pluto and sun. I am not afraid of death, i do not go out of my way to pursue death, but the last ten years of my life have seen me work with people in respite and with the elderly. When you are eighty you are looking death in the face. Our attitudes and customs around growing old and dying should be reviewed. As death is part of our journey.
    Sudden death shocks us, and grief is debilitating for some, and we carry on with our lives, because that’s what you do.

  17. rachelle menaged says:

    8th. house scorpio and uranus..
    triple aries..
    i need more info

  18. Sara says:

    I have a whole book on the 8th house and my understanding from this book and other research i’ve done is that pluto rules the 8th, yet you say neptune rules the 8th. could you clarify? thanks!

    • chirotic says:

      Hello Sara,
      In the article I am only referring to the fact that Neptune rules Warhol’s 8th house. You are quite correct in your understanding that generally, Pluto is the natural ruler of the 8th,
      Take care,
      Jeremy

  19. Stephi says:

    Many thanks for sharing your insight, it has been most interesting and written in a fashion I much enjoy. :)

  20. Carolyn says:

    What sort of death would Pluto in Virgo in the 8th, Uranus in Virgo in the 8th, True Node in Leo in the 8th suggest? Sudden? Having to do with the heart and communication?

    Love this article. Still trying to figure out how to interpret on my own! Thanks.

  21. Jennifer Stephan says:

    I think about dying all the time, but then I have had a life threatening disease and I am 55 and dear mom is 90. Aries on cusp of eighth with Aries Sun Mercury conjunct there, trining 4th house moon saturn conjunct in Sag, IC in Scorpio. Pluto in 12th applying to the first. How is that for a Plutonian chart? I will have to be working on this formula for awhile!

  22. Katya says:

    I have a question. Uranus is my 8th house ruler and it resides in my 5th house in scorpio. I also have pluto in 4th house in libra so I kind of “expect” to die suddenly etc. I would like to know if there is a way to find out if I gonna die young (I am already 34) or maybe when I am old? If I go to a good astrologer would be he/she be able to tell me I will live a long life? You know old would be better :)

  23. Virgo Sun and Mercury says:

    I had an x boyfriend die recently and then I read of Whitney Houston dying today. When I did Hellenistic Solar Return charts for them for the SR prior to their deaths – Saturn was sitting right on their Innum Coeli or I.C. (Using relocated charts)

    Using traditional astrology the 4th house shows the end of life.

    How do you do a Hellenistic SR? Go to astro.com and find the lunar return for when the sign is in the same sign as natal. Sign only – no matter the degrees. Note that rising because it is the solar return rising. You don’t know the degree of rising yet. Then determine the ruler of the year. To do this use a profection wheel seen at this link: http://www.sageasita.com/visual-nine.html

    To use a profection wheel you don’t need to know astrology. You just have to know your/their age. Go to the age and then note the house that it falls in natally. That gives you your years focus. Cadent houses tend to be difficult years. (3rd, 6th, 9th & 12th houses) See the sign on that house and find its ruler. Say you are Pisces rising and age 55. That makes Libra, ruled by Venus, the ruler of your year at your 55th birthday. So to get the rising DEGREE look to the SR Venus and see the degree it falls in and that is your Hellenistic SR rising.

  24. i’ve read that Saturn in the 8th house lends towards a death in old age. having Mars there lends to a quick, violent death. what if one had both there? say Mars is conjunct Pluto in the 8th as well (1 deg orb), with Saturn also there in a Grand Trine with the moon and ascendant. the Saturn rules the native’s sun in Capricorn. Mars, Pluto & Saturn are all in Scorpio, however the 8th house cusp is in Libra, with Venus conjunct the midheaven and well-aspected. my question is, which is stronger in this configuration? Mars or Saturn? or is the death a violent sudden event (Mars) on a grand, public scale (Pluto, Venus conj. midheaven) that slowly kills the individual at some point in his or her older age (Saturn)? possibly via some failing of the kidneys (Libra)? so complicated!

    by the way, i absolutely love your posts. i love astrology and aspire to be great at it someday. thank you for any feedback.

  25. sailesh says:

    I have nothing in the 8th house but mars 10th look on it.. what is that supposed to mean? nobody else is looking except mars!

  26. Patricia says:

    I am gobsmacked. It’s very eery but I was drawn to this subject.
    Whitney Houston had Neptune in her 8th house.
    Your explanations are obviously founded upon concrete evidence and research. I’ve had a look at quite a few birth charts and it’s a bit freaky knowing the possible causes of deaths…..
    Thank you for this site.

    Patricia (Cancer, Virgo rising, Chiron in Aries, 8th house, and fortunately (?) 8th house ruled by Pisces rather than Aries!

  27. Bhakti says:

    I have Uranus alone in the 8th house.

  28. mimi says:

    what and where is the ruler of your 8th house?

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